German Glory
von zeev avrahamiI think that last night’s game between Germany and Argentine should leave many Germans worried. Not only their team played an awful game and their goalkeeper made an idiotic mistake, but their best striker is black!! What would happen in the NPD nation (mean the supporter of this party, not all of Germany) if this striker will score the winning goal in South Afrika? how are they supposed to celebrate? didn’t they have enough of Klose?
The game reminded me of the World Cup four years ago, when the Germans really made an effort and pretend to be nice to foreigners. What a wonderful month and concept that was. I remember that midway through the Welt Meister I completely was rooting for the German national team and even wrote about it for a local newspaper. It was the new Germany, Klinsman Germany, Berlin Germany of opneness and multi cultures as opposed to the previous, depressing and industrialized German national teams of the past, the Bavarian Germany.
There were two things that happened in the quarterfinal game against Argentine in Berlin in 2006 that I remember very well. At half time I went to buy beer for me and three more friends that were sitting in the stadium. I waited on a long line and after 10 minutes it was my turn. I asked for four beers, but the lady behind the counter answered that they can sell only three at a time. I didn’t understand the rule but there was no time to argue as the second half was about to start. I asked for three beers, paid, kneeled below the counter, got up and asked for one more beer. The woman gave me the puzzled look of “I know him from somewhere”, and made the sale.
The second and more resounding memory happened after Klose made the equalizer and tens of thosands of people stood and shouted in unisom: “Sieg, Sieg, Sieg”. I was staring at the empty section in the Olympic stadium and I can’t even start to describe how terrified I felt. I promised to root for any other team, even the Italians, just so I wouldn’t have to witness this again.
Anyway, after yesterday’s game I think that the German fans should really be worried. In this shape I can’t see Germany getting over the semi-finals.
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04.03.2010 um 12:03 |
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I first visited Berlin in February 2002. One of the first things I saw was: one synagogue, two policemen in front of it, one armoed tank and two prostitutes in white ski suits. And I thought to myself: this is a good place to get to know yourself.
“depressing and industrialized German national teams of the past, the Bavarian Germany.?”
WTF!!
You haven’t been once in Bavaria, have you?
Dude, what you are writing is just ridiculous.
“The game reminded me of the World Cup four years ago, when the Germans really made an effort and pretend to be nice to foreigners.”
What?
“The second and more resounding memory happened after Klose made the equalizer and ten of thosands of people stood and shouted in unisom: “Sieg, Sieg, Sieg”. I was staring at the empty section in the Olympic stadium and I can’t even start to describe how terrified I felt. ”
What?
Go and apply at Harpers Magazin. Working for them suits you down to the ground.
What would happen in the NPD nation if is going to score the winning goal in South Afrika?
There is something, called conditional clauses!
<a href="http://www.ego4u.de/de/cram-up/grammar/conditional-sentences"english for beginners
this is football stupid, alcoholized, aggressive, testosterone-controlled fans, which literally hate fans of the other team.
but its really funny (in a sadomachistic way) to support the german opponent during the game. last time me and a friend of mine allways used to learn the national anthem of the other team so we were able to sing it.
Thanks for the English lesson. I appreciate your assistance in making this blog look better. I actually applied to (not at) Harpers, but unfortunately they don’t pay as much as the Taz.
Johannes,
I don’t like to give people this discounts. people should be aware to their acts, and everyone who was there should be ashamed of crying sieg in this stadium. I might be too sensitive, but I think that it is really in bad taste.
…and YOU, Mr. Avrahami, should be worried that your blog has attracted the attention of that obnoxious lickspittle. No doubt he and his ilk had the last drop of testosterone bred out of them ages ago.
Sorry for correcting you once again, but “to apply at sth.” is allowable, too.
I know that according to leo.org solely “apply to sth.” would be correct, but I have seen “to apply at sth” many times in the States.
Just type “to apply at sth” into google and you will find, for example:
http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2010/02/15/bisf0219.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/05/AR2009020503413.html
You apply to a person / to a trainee program / etc…
And you apply at an institution like harpers or the capitol.
Just to prevent misunderstandings.
My last comment doesn’t mean, that “to apply to” would be wrong.
Sorry for correcting you once again, but “to apply at sth.” is allowable, too.
I know that according to leo.org solely “apply to sth.” would be correct, but I have seen “to apply at sth” many times in the States.
Just type “to apply at sth” into google and you will find, for example:
http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2010/02/15/bisf0219.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/05/AR2009020503413.html
I understand in a way that you were shocked by the fans. However, they shout “Sieg” like other fans in other countries shout victory. No “serious” soccer fan would yell in a distinguised way, like “Welcome to our country, dear visitors, we hope that you do not feel bad if you loose that game (and maybe you will)”
As a fan you must shorten your messages to the basics, and of course you want your team to win the game so it’s “Sieg” or “victory” or “victoria”; this is not meant in a historic context but only for the moment. Totally normal; if you don’t like it you should not visit a football game.
Max, I will answer on two levels:
1. Of course it is normal. It is also normal that the sirens wail the same way, that the eagle is still everywhere, that the captain of the national team is also the Fuehrer, that women here are wearing their boots in a Nazi-officer style. Unfortunatley, and thanks to their grandparents, Germans don’t enjoy the opportunity to excuse themselves from any act, especially not one with connection to the Third Reich. 80,000 fans shouting “Sieg, Sieg, Sieg” in this stadium is completely tasteless.
2. I am writing this blog as an outsider who wish to show Germans how does it look and feel to live here as an auslander. I am also Jewish. We were a group of ten people from Israel in the stadium When Germany equalized the score. We were all healthy and in the mid thirties. We’ve been to situations. We were scared and humilated at that moment.
What a load of shyte! If you aren’t supposed to use any word that Hitler ever used or might have used then we might as well all speak another language entirely.
Judging by za’s command of English, I’m fairly certain his German is even worse and he is likely not to have a clue.
For the clueless: The word “Sieg” means “Victory”. What else does he suggest the fans shout?
And so what if we have a black player? The French have almost nothing but. People who have German Citizenship can compete for posts on the National Team, just like anywhere else.
Germany is playing by FIFA rules just as all the rest of the teams are. Anyone who doesn’t like it needs to work with FIFA to get the rules changed.
Herr za seems to have an unhealthy pre-occupation with skin color.
Ps. Don’t worry about our team for the World Cup this year. Please leave that to the real fans.
The Italians you claim to like so much certainly won with a lot of luck and even more dirty tricks. Who’s to say Germany can’t learn and follow suit?
Dear Anti alla,
I think you didn’t quite understand what I have written: 80,000 fans shouting together “sieg, sieg sieg” is not a pleasant sight, but they are allowed to do it. Sieg has different symbolism from other words. And I think it is very unique for Germans to shout Sieg. I have been to many soccer games in my life and I hear fans shout and sing, but in no country I hears them shouting victory. It looks like German fan lack some creativity when it comes to celebrating a win.
I rather not comment on what you wrote about dark skinned players in the national teams. I really think that you didn’t understand the spirit and meaning of my writing. For the record: I am very much support dark skin players everywhere.
Dear zeev avrahami,
Fact is if the German team is winning the fans will shout “sieg”. Unless you’d like to suggest a substitute word they could use they will use the one word they know.
How long do we have to hide our language? One hundred years after 1945 or will 200 years do it for you?
Maybe we should go after the French for what Napoleon did with much less sophisticated weapons all over Europe?
Should Turks self-censor because of the Genocide of the Armenians or are they exempt because they refuse to even acknowledge their actions which indeed inspired Adolf Hitler to commit the Holocaust.
This constant drumbeat against Germany and the German language is a sickness that only Germans seem willing to put up with!
Perhaps we should be more intransigent like for example the Turks and noone will criticize how we celebrate a win by our National Team.
German-bashing has become so common-place that noone even realizes that they’re bashing anyone.
Funny that now the Arabs are trying to cast Israel as the new Germany and themselves as the new Jews. Which of course I find utterly disgusting and reprehensible.
What say you?
As disgusting as it is, it is food for thought when they are trying to thusly stigmatize and entire nation, isn’t it?
.
“Should Turks self-censor because of the Genocide of the Armenians or are they exempt because they refuse to even acknowledge their actions which indeed inspired Adolf Hitler to commit the Holocaust”. This is going to be my last comment to you on this issue–Can you give me the contact number for your drug dealer?
But I will tell you what: Once the Germans eliminate the NPD, stop harassing foreigners, make it safe for me to go to the Baltic (or even to Pankow) and won’t allow thousands of Nazis to march in Dresden, Then they can gather, 80 millions of them, and shout “SIEG, SIEG, SIEG”.
Once the Germans stop harassing foreigners.
Please Stop such preoccupations against the Germans who are foreigners to you.
And of course I´l promise you, I’l shout Sieg and not victory. For me its not a Nazi sound at all, more like the antique Greeks winning at Maraton and shouting “Sieg, wir haben gesiegt” before the collapsing at the too huge efford made..
Getting Nasty (how come all the patriots have such names?),
I am sorry, for being preoccupied with the idiotic notion of Germans who don’t like foreigners. I should have learned from History and from today’s police bloggers, that Germany always was and probably always will be hospitable to foreigners (Unless they are dark, Jews or Muslims).
I will say one more word about the Sieg crying. You are allowed to shout Sieg from here to eternity, just as much as I am allowed to say that it stinks (and shows that German football fans have no creativity)
patriots – interesting thought. Have you ever got to know that many Germans hate nationalistic ideas. O.K. Maybe ideas of “our cars are best” are not so far away from patriotic.
Even and especially in the taz are lots of people even hating the State Israel for its extreme and arrogant expansive patriotic policy. Others say, this is not anti nationalistic but anti semitic hate which missleads the legimate critic to ugly thoughts. Like van der Leyens net cersorship campain declares opponents as pedophiles.
So who is patriotic . THE GERMANS. Maybe you can help me finding some patriots in my neighbourhood. Or even one German flag in the hole city. (my city not yours) Please don’t recommend a football game – I’m not interested and dislike near hooligan types of fans in this sport – they have no tolerance and no creativity.
As i dislike football (soccer- not american football) my wife dislikes Berlin for the reckless and potentially violent and hostile inhabitants. Maybe she’d done wrong to one ore another person but the feeling of the City is different to maybe Hamburg. And so the sport is.
But stop bashing my language in words without symbolic meaning.
Maybe we should talk about your misleading explanations of a world due to your special cultural remembering and state constituional habits.
I know small things about the pre-Mauerfall world. Even less from the 68 “revolution” and i’m even lesser interested in cold war, world war, flight and displacement and crusades in farer history. I can’t even stop it from happening now. Not in Serbia and not in maybe “Europes” most densly populated area the GAZA which would be discussable what could be the best move. Maybe violence happens there because the people have to many fucking Symbols and to less compassion.
I don’t think of hospitable Germans, darker guest or not.
Well I learned you’re sorry for being proccupied with Germans.
not your best day and article.
The “wtf, what, what” questions indicates, that your article is full of statements that can’t be agreed with. Even culminating in Can you give me the contact number for your drug dealer?
So calm down a bit.
You feel a problem going to the baltic sea ? write about it, as blond German i do not feel unsave.
You feel disgusted with the NPD – me too. But remember – the first things the Nazis did wasn’t against the Jews but against opposition. If democracy lives from opposing parties and a right to come together you have to be very sure with bans. Even if i don’t like the outcome.
Siegfried,
The NPD is a non democratic party that abuses the democratic system.
I feel you are right. If you have a proof of abuse which would be sufficient to exclude this party every other german party would be glad if it’s done.
If this officially legitimate party stretches the rules beyond any agreeable border it’s awful. But the jurisprudence can’t be streched to do all of us the favour and get rid of a social problem. If it does, its in the one way or the other like one of the totalitarian systems we are glad to have overcome. (to get access to the organisations behind the pseudo “democratic” display NPD is even harder)
A social problem has to solved by all people. This is not a problem that the nazis have a broad support but a lack of awareness and importance to solve this problem first.
Also a big problem in this democracy is the blindness to corruption and mafia-like structures.
Funny how zeev claims that Germans “harrass Jews and mohamedans” when in fact virtually all anti-Semitic acts in Germany and other European countries are carried out by moslems.
Nice try, zeev.
Say hi to your “friends” the “palestinians” for me.
.
NP Mr. cowerd nickname,
I think that the European church showed the way for the Muslims. It is a shame that you use this nickname and write in slogans, as the whole point was to try to make here a dialogue.
And you are wrong. I tried but it is hard to get a Palestinian friends these days.
My two cents (or a cent more)
zeev, you pointed it out: It IS a interesting circumstance that Mr. Nasty etc are brave enough to throw dirt at you but don’t stand up and actually be themselves. No, it’s got to be Nasty, Anti Alla, etc.
The point for me is: YES, you can chant and sing and say SO many things. You do have the right. But you might as well think a bit further and ask yourself: I can say that. But do I WANT to say this? Right here right now?
I am allowed to walk in a ublic playground, I guess and say:
‘Hey kids, you know how many children get ralep by their fathers? And how many of you may be killed by there mommys?’
Would that be such a nice thing to say?
It’s taking the ‘Sieg’-Chants to a whole new level, but imagine for a second or two how you might feel then. Sitting on a bench and hearing this. Maybe i would bring a whole crwod and we would party and chant stuff along those lines there.
As you surely feel strong about kids, there are other people feel strong about still-active issues about being of a faith our country wanted to extinguish. I have friends who told me about these issues, too. Some from the arabian area, some from asia, and a german of jewish faith.
I feel like I can get a bit of their perspective, but we can never fully know about the sheer terror there can be if we would walk in their shoes.
Let’s not fool ourselves: That bad seed is still in our ground and it keeps popping up and sometimes it actually looks nice and cute and you don’t think it is evil, but if you let it grow, it can become a new danger.
And there ARE other ways to celebrate then using Nazi-language.
Zeev
You really kneeled below the counter and asked for one more beer? Its too funny.
I’m thinking a lot about “the Germans pretending to be friendly.”
Generally Germans are concerned about comfortable distance – to strangers but also to other Germans. As answers to “stranger on train” also point out.
They can’t give up the distance easily which isn’t meant unfriendly. In fact it’s more a kind of shyness.
But you can also find the other – the openess – examples at events when Germans are expected to be good hosts like the expo 2000, the CEBIT or probably the Kieler Woche.
My new years resolutions are to teach myself in small talk.
Well: What is your little princess doing with Easter, has she busily been searching for eggs?
Siegfried,
Maya ist nach dusseldorf gefahren to celebrate easter with her grandparents and was looking forward to search for eggs outside, aber das Wetter….
Zeev
It’s allways great for the children to be with the grandparents on easter treasure hunt. I know from my sons still protesting at the ages of 11 and 15 if I do not hide some sweets.
But maybe also a pity that her dad can’t share Mayas fun.
That leads to questions maybe a bit too personal for the internet. How well is the relationship between the German?? grandparents and the oriental son-in-law. Are they religious and easter has a spiritual meaning for them. And is the relation between all the grandparents (if other exist) shaped by loving respect and openess or by reluctance and fears. But maybe in there are other stories i’d love to read.
Siegfried,
Obviously I can’t give a detailed answer in this forum, but I might write stories in the future to reveal some. In general, we are all lucky that we are all non-religion individuals. I think that my wife’s parents are intellectually curious to be around and to hear prespective of a Jewish-Israeli of Iranian descent. As for my side: My father is dead. My mother s just happy to have someone who wants to live with me (she is a Jewish mother…).
I will write a post soon about what happened between me and my sister who became very religious a few years ago.
I feel sorry for you zeev. You are surrounded by paranoid ideas.
fun, thank you for enlightenment. Save your sorry: if you have something smart to say, do so. If not….
German_glory.. Keen
German_glory.. Amazing
German_glory.. Ho-o-o-o-t